To be brief. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them (Acts 5:38-39). ++++++++++++++++++. So many things bring to mind what Leah Remini is bringing to light. In the history of the church, which is most seductive:money, sex, or power? This hits the nail on the head. I dont know if its just that I got old enough and wise enough to start seeing it or cynical and hardened as I got older, but after going through the 1980s and 1990s able to find what I thought were decent churches, for over a decade I havent to find a place that isnt abusive, heretical, led by a narcissist or all the the above. I hate using this corporate example but if you have a CEO of your company who does not meet the qualifications for that job, what happens? Dallas has at long last come out, along with a long list of other former top Harvest leadrs. Both HBC & WC had a plurality of elders and a single pastor as the head of their church. This is something that all Christians in a church community should take to heart. I mean, how could you be labeled Christian without giving Jesus a little bit of credit?! Dee has been at it for over ten years. Harvest took in over a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in the last 12 yrs and many of their properties were donated free and clear. He stands to shield me from danger Narcissistic business CEOs mistreat their subordinates and the nastiness flows downhill within the enterprise. Trust me, youre not. The key is to have a system where checks and balances are in place. Who do you want to be in Gods sight? etc. ++++++++++++++++++++. I approve as soon as I have a moment. A person who thinks they are qualified, is someone who may need to take some time to discern whether thats true. And are angry. This is not to defend JM or associates, but to note that the vision of eternal punishments that motivates (or justifies, or both) a lot of ministry in churches in the Western theological tradition (I keep coming back to that; sorry, but I have come to believe its important) puts a very heavy weight on one side of the cost/benefit calculus in ministry. Whats chilling is you can still see the cult hold harvest has on him and others as he desribes his felling in the beginning of the letter. us gray hairs, unfortunately, have experienced allot (hence gray hair), and the funny thing is that while technology progresses, human behavoir really does not change. But, I aint Paul, so I suppose I will just have to wait and see how this sorts itself out in eternity. IMO, most people attend church to replace the lost family and community modern society has sacrificed. Everything after those three paragraphs is my comment. Samuel Conner: I read an article yesterday about small mainstream churches driven to the wall by the migration to the megas being forced to lease their vacant during the week facilities to small businesses in order to generate enough income to keep the doors open. There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, all while commenting from anonymous online handles. We want proof, not opinion, so we can weed out the arrogance from others who believe they know best and will determine what the rest should think and believe. TS00: Never, and I mean never, have I heard someone say, I would leave, but I just cant survive without the gifted teaching. One of my concerns with much of the Reformed world is their higher regard for doctrine and authority over the individual lost and needy soul. Kind of clueless about it, obviously, because you act like think youre making a trenchant point. I mean, everyone thought Willow Creek was that church. For you, maybe, but not for most here. The proof of the Jesuss death and resurrection is what allows us to have faith in the things unseen. We believe that disciples of Jesus profess that He is Lord, practice His Ways, and persevere in both their profession and practice. Was it released or leaked? The need for such men is apparent. 7,646 were here. The famous TV series director is a prominent name in the entertainment industry. can you elaborate on what went on during and after the showing of The Passion Of The Christ? Some comments lead to some questions. Craig French: Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. It was then that the whole sham of our relationship was exposed, and when I rebuffed him he moved on to someone else. It is also pure, and I would say faulty, assumption to state that the main issue is that the flock will quickly go astray. Friend: Yes, because he delivered the pew what they wanted in a church experience. Besides, nobody goes there anymore its too crowded. Yogi Berra. How to do church that has nothing to do with Jesus, then. We rejoice in Gods faithfulness to us the first 30 years! Its time for all these leaders to stop whining as if they were the victims and demonstrate a genuine show of sackcloth and ashes before the masses they deceived the real victims who must now live with being tithe-paying participants in this scam against Holy God. Here are some fun and easy strategies to make the most of every moment of your Bible study. Maybe you should have considered the consequences of your actions, or inaction, before you decided to hitch your wagon to JM. and on the iceberg? But, assuming Paul would be cheering them on nevertheless, that opens up a door for whoever to bring in whatever in attempts to do church (and thats exactly what we have in America). Its your choiceAnonymity is not the same thing as cowardice, but thanks so much for playing that tired old game. There is more than enough dirt throughout this enterprise to make one doubt the integrity or honesty of anyone who was ever long a part of it. I agree with those who say that Dee is fair with her control of her blog. These head pastors will gladly pay SM large fees in exchange for helping them become secret multi-millionaires. I dont think any of these people have a clue about how that kind of trauma weaves its way into a persons life. Known for its racial and economic diversity, the congregation moved into a converted warehouse in Rolling Meadows, Illinois, in 1995. Dallas, choose the path of humility! There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. I read an article yesterday about small mainstream churches driven to the wall by the migration to the megas being forced to lease their vacant during the week facilities to small businesses in order to generate enough income to keep the doors open. They will now export it across the US. None of us called Christian should reach the last chapter of life and still be asking What is truth? dont let the mere teachings of men distract you from finding it read the red and pray for revelation! etc. Someone should also dig into the incident regarding the video of Mel Gibsons Passion of the Christ that was shown to HCA ELEMENTARY school children without any warning or notice to parents. Probably took over where my favorite Vietnamese restaurant used to be. 37 were here. But I suspect that since McDonalds first job is being a pastor, it would not surprise me if this was a canned hunt. GreekEpigraph: there is no mechanism at all for pew peons to do as you note and hold elders accountable for anything. In all honesty, Dallas, since Mac and those around him, including you, took great delight in his being a very public ministry with great influence and far reach, this is a matter for public airing. Beware! What in the world is running through his mind that he wouldnt want the truth shouted from the rooftops to those whod been under Macs influence far and wide? But who is to say whether that subset is right? Also, your letter simply further bolsters credibility of the excellent work from the Elephants Debt and Julie Roys. When will the madness end?! There are many claims on this blog but very little proof from original sources, only alleged copies and pastes. Maybe that was why Elmer Gantry had such impact. Otherwise, of course theyd have told us what was untrue. Its been about the cash for the last 20 years! For example, no one would say that those who spoke out about Bill Hybels harassing women were wrongly airing a personal grievance.. As a Christian, how could they do otherwise? Muff Potter: The daughter of Matt Slick (big-gun-reformed-apologist) converted to fundamental atheism. I bring up Eastern Orthodoxy because its dogma and practices are very old. So, out of well over 1600 posts she doesnt allow comments on maybe two and that leads to your rant of a comment? However, he has never won . For those who regularly read this blog, question with critical thinking, demand proof for claims made, and hold those posting and commenting to the same standards being written about. ), Law Prof: If we just got back to that model, the one the early church leaders generally followed . If she ends up with child porn on her computer which she can just barely turn on to view Facebook Im going to guess JMac or somebody planted it. All who have enriched themselves in the name of serving God and on the backs of the working people are suspect, as that is certainly not what we were called to, nor a reflection of the sacrificial love of Jesus who came to serve. not given to wine Your desire for those far flung hundreds of thousands or millions whod been influenced by his ministry to know the cold, hard truth shouldve trumped any desire to keep things in house. What is harvest in the Bible? Its a lonely place, especially when my life was steeped in church community, teaching, and deep, deep, love for Christ and His people. The one time we visited Spain and France and visited (maybe 4 or 5) churches from about 1200 CE up to Notre Dame in Paris, there were (especially in Spain) tons of silver and gold used on private family altars scattered all around the floor of the more recent cathedrals, to the point that there wasnt really room for many actual worshippers. Max: And to link them together as a Body of Christ, each one uniquely gifted to be a part of the whole something the institutional church just doesnt appear to get.Whose job is the ministry?Every believer has a part!When we separate believers into clergy vs. laity, pulpit vs. pew, us vs. them failing to equip and mobilize the saints to do the work of the ministry we miss what God intended for His Church and fall short of living in the Kingdom of Heaven here and now.Jesus talked a LOT about living in the Kingdom we would do well to read His words living in the church doesnt always mean living in the Kingdom.Based on my 70-year snapshot of the institutional church, theres a vast difference in what Christ describes vs. what we have put together in this thing we call church. John: I was asked to consider serving on the elder board there three days before I leftand the topic of 1Tim 3 wasnt brought up. Churches that are run like cults do not encourage true friendships. and a Pastor. Good Lord, how does that happen?! The bear was later seen using the gun to defend itself against local mice and rabbits.. I suppose you would doubt your own mother? I was asked. And of course you. Apparently DJ knew these things and witnessed these things, but did nothing about these things. Dee fully admits Hall scares her. Is anonymous code for little people or pew peons? And now hes trying to explain to all of us how the 2000 people that left and who were shunned by the Harvesr machine that we somehow need to let the Lord work to save Harvest? The fact that the gospel according to Luke was accepted early seems to give credibility to Paul. As another new, unforeseen door opened to bring Harvest to the Aurora area, 200 people from the Elgin Campus were sent south, opening as the Aurora Campus on January 23, 2011. It is very difficult to regain trust when the most trusted abuse it. 3/2/2023 - 9:30am-11:30am. What religion is Harvest Church? He is currently Director of Media at Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago, where he directed the award-winning short film "The Ride" and is currently developing multiple feature films. And I know that we are falling far short of appropriating the spiritual resources available to us as Christians to make a difference in this world not with what we think, but what we know. They tolerate whatever they must (loud music, annoying demands for money, sermons that go in one ear and out the other) in order to establish a community of friends and support in a cold world in which family is often spread across the continent. I rather doubt that they were able to get it right in the end. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. I prayed for your father-in-law and your family just now. Mel Gibsons Passion of the Christ is one of the most GRAPHIC and INTENSE and VIOLENT art films ever made. Thousands came and all seven campuses hosted these spectacular services all at one location! When I first started reading your comment I thought it was serious and that I would have to redact the tweet. TS00: I dont see how you could get any further from the mark in your comment. The Four Pillars of HBC: 1 - PROCLAIMING the authority of God's Word without apology. The three terms above are from the Greek language, the original language in which the New Testament Scriptures were written. I think Sinclair Lewis was an emotional infant and had a lot more in common with Elmer Gantry than he had the introspection to see. Man if you are looking for a physical church to be perfected and wholly sanctified, by mere men, you will be disalusioned. at one time run an online poker site? It has been a comfort reading here (and at TED, Julie Roys, and other sites revealing the truth) of others who are working through this. 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