by RELEVANT. "Just so you know, Pastor John had a bug this week and preached our first hour but asked if he might be able to take a break for the second hour. But we must not quote our own books in sermons as far as possible! [3] MacArthur has written or edited more than 150 books, most notably the MacArthur Study Bible, which has sold more than one million copies, receiving a Gold Medallion Book Award. I know of Alistair Begg from his Hamilton Baptist days but not much else. You've successfully subscribed to this newsletter! 4) Yes my point about the megachurches was that they were not per se bad. ON the other hand you seem to be very quick to hand out your tongue lashing arrogance and childishness. Rather than ignoring these churches and individuals Scotlands born again believers need to stand up and contend for the faith. Have mercy! I stated that the danger comes from false teachers AND from those who allow the word of God to be compromised by turning a blind eye. Its also a nasty wee trick to complain of someone remarks as being provocative, misleading and snide. I would be tempted to add, Because youre worth it! I replied tongue in cheek and its unfortunate my smiley emo didnt indicate that. God is everywhereeven in the news. Thats hypocrisy, and no, that doesnt constitute name calling. Some might expect be to be critical of the entertainment Hillsong style worship and the whole professional stage go that goes along with it. All rights reserved. And there are some well-liked denominations and networks of churches on Facebook pages too: john macarthur on elevation church. You are aware of them as you demonstrated when writing about Mr Furtick. or redistributed. John MacArthur is the pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church, as well as an author, conference speaker, chancellor of The Master's University and Seminary, and featured teacher with the Grace to You media ministry. Regards. But in this instance let me assure you I am not mocking. John MacArthur, pastor of the popular Grace Community megachurch, is recovering from a sudden onset of illness. John MacArthur is the pastor of Grace Community Church in SunValley, California, a neighborhood in Los Angeles. You Wouldnt Be Dashing Him And Family And God House Stop being jealous Stop Counting The Heads In The Church And Start Counting Youre Blessing We Still Have A universe To Stand On And spreading the message good God And Getting People Ready For Whats About To Come..Btw Are You Ready For When God Comes? Im not rich at all but Im also not jealous of someone who has far more people and more money. Ive only just seen the comments you wrote yesterday, Sunday, and again today. Tim Keller as an anti-Christian preacher is nonsense.it is the kind of irrational ranting legalism that I was mentioning at the beginning.very very sad that you endorse it! It just looks weird. Its only your perception and I would deny it. As for your other points, Matt Chandlers church eventually acted only after a number of Christian magazines and websites had highlighted their initial inaction. You call them out or call them to repentance but see no need to repent yourself. It was not an accusation, nor an attack. Ward's father, John Tucker, was also a member of the church who had been informed . He did not say Timothy Keller is an anti-Christian preacher. This following sermon was full of what can only be called psychobabble. 23,12! 4) Wrong on all counts. I am intrigued as to why you think my challenge to the claim is disgraceful and totally unwarranted, but you dont think the claim itself is? Lumping every mega church together is not a healthy thing to do. The biggest threat to the church comes not from fundamentalist atheists or those of another religion, it comes from within. If I had said that I wasnt happy with any mega church, that would have been a fault as well. Opinion Preston Clegg. More here: https://mrayton.wordpress.com/tag/john-macarthur/, Thanks very helpfulalthough I think that the money and the me focus are a key part of the false teaching. Join Transformation church Sunday service at 11AM with Michael Todd, Live Stream (April-24-2022). (What a great sales pitch why dont you try it next time David I will even make the trip to Dundee to hear you). MacArthur told church members ahead of his sermon that many people contracted COVID and it probably went through our church in maybe December or January. The pastor said he and his wife, Patricia, enjoyed our own bout with COVID for about a week and a half.. The point I made about Matt Chandler himself is that it took the pressure from outside his church to galvanise him into doing something. Im afraid I have had more than enough of this kind of depressing legalism and self-righteousness pride(and before you jump in yes I admit I can all too easily be the same).. At the risk of over-blogging (I dont want to be a bore), have you seen this just the introduction. And if you do wish to engage here, I would find it helpful if you answered my questions and stick to the point otherwise such threads just become a string of accusations. You can find the details here. Use the Church Finder to locate churches with TMS alumni around the world. 4) Its also not a good idea to claim that you know the motives of someone you dont know. Excellent post! [42] Furtick responded to this comment in his 2016 book Unqualified: How God Uses Broken People to Do Big Things. Sadly so. The Church of England's compromise on same-sex relationships is disastrous for everyone. Help us continue to be a voice for truth in the media by supporting CBN News for as little as $1. I dont know enough about Elevation to make that kind of judgment, but there are warning signs. Because your worth it! LOL! And what is your position, from Scripture, on the subject? Its just name calling which again results in self-justification and does not really contribute to any discussion. He was unable to preach the second service. including starting the Church Growth Movement which gave life to the pragmatism movement which as we know is so ubiquitous. Elevation Church's revival is seeing some theological controversy. That is just nuts. Their influence has been growing and recently . These views raised controversy within American evangelicalism and were challenged in print by non-lordship dispensationalist theologians Charles Ryrie and Zane C. Hodges, who argued that MacArthur's ministry was teaching a form of works-based salvation. The incident referred to was a very serious matter and Christian publications in th USA documented the churchs mishandling of it, which was why I had urged caution. If theyre charities (and I suspect many of them will be) then theyre monitored by OSCR, and will have to submit yearly, independently audited, accounts. If that is the last word then so be it. If you were not speaking about Chandler then why write it here? It all depends how you measure success! 2023 FOX News Network, LLC. MacArthur, 83, was preaching Sunday service earlier this week when he reportedly said he felt ill. Radio Scotland Abortion Debate Edited Highlights, https://theweeflea.com/2020/04/22/return-to-elevation/), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3BN1lStbIw, http://thewartburgwatch.com/?s=Matt+chandler&x=0&y=0, http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Calvinists-ES-Williams/dp/1908919329/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=vvjMUrPUfC4&app=desktop, https://mrayton.wordpress.com/tag/john-macarthur/, Elevation Church The Good, The Bad and the Ugly, Most Read Wee Flea Articles in 2017 THE BLOG OF DAVID ROBERTSON. For all who oppose success in serving Jesus Christ!!! I didnt even mention Chandler in my comment, let alone call him a false teacher (and have never done so). Its always good to get correction! [18] Furthermore, he believes that we are obliged to render full submission to scripture above all else and that "[t]o mishandle the Word of God is to misrepresent the One who wrote it. MacArthur has written three books on the subject. John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American Protestant pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated Christian teaching radio and television program Grace to You. So when I see money, resources and people being diverted into what appear to be personal vanity projects, branding and corporate Christianity, I weep, am angry and cry out to the Lord. IMHO he totally manipulated the emotions of his audience and used the scriptures in an inappropriate way. As so often in the church, sex, money and power are the real problems for many because they are the idols of our hearts. You said he was a great example, I urged caution and pointed to a recent event where he and his church had attracted adverse publicity because of how they handled a particular incident. If your love is put off by answers you dont like, then like the BeeJees I need to ask how deep is your love?! To be sure he writes from a certain perspective, as you do, but he presented his case quite calmly using documented and verifiable evidence. Name calling really doesnt constitute argument does it? See what mine own hands have wrought. Why is that disgraceful and totally unwarranted? Check out what's clicking on Foxnews.com. Can we in the UK stop copying these kind of churches? More a worry that this kind of thing will take deeper root here. Jenna . It never occurs to me for a second to not fulfill it. Its not loving, judgemental, take the beam out of your own eye, it aint wrong to be rich, youre just jealous, hypocrite. In 1969, after graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church. 2) I challenge you to provide some evidence for that statement and question whether you were just against mega churches per se. How John MacArthur loves the Bible but not his neighbor. 1) There is only One only speaks the truth and it aint Steven Furtick. You also muddied the waters by dropping in a juicy wee bit of gossip about a child sex abuse scandal. Didnt appreciate the joking about drug use. The digressive discussion of church trappings in some ways diminishes the toxic nature of this actual ministry content its danger isnt in size or wealth or me focus, it is in the false gospel it promotes he is not qualified to preach. Legal Statement. In John MacArthur's book, "The Truth War" he writes that " Churches today are filled with people like that. As I trust that you would not deliberately bear false witness against me, can I ask that, in future, you read any comment very carefully before making such serious accusations? Staff Pastor Tom Patton delivered the sermon in MacArthurs stead, telling churchgoers the senior minister was resting., ***As the number of voices facing big-tech censorship continues to grow, please sign up forFaithwires daily newsletterand download theCBN News app, to stay up-to-date with the latest news from a distinctly Christian perspective.***. It is no improvement on, or explanation of, the Word of God. We welcome another new contributor, Edward Benitez, as he biblically critiques a sermon given by Steven Furtick. For you to say that I did makes you guilty of the thing you wrongly accuse me of and it is quite reprehensible. They are usually absorbed in religion for self-centered reasons. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. His church takes in $500,000 per weekcertainly it has given $10 million over a decade to other causes, but for a congregation which is taking in over $26 million a year, that is hardly sacrificial giving. John MacArthur is pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California. There is no legalism or self-righteous pride in anything I said. I simply stated that the book on my Amazon feed was priced at 30 and I was not going to pay that. Im afraid that you are talking about something you do not really know about and picking on one particular church why? Los Angeles County had sued the church and its pastor, John MacArthur, last August after officials said he had he opened the church and held a large indoor worship service with unmasked attendees . I love the gospel, and I love the Lords people from whatever background, and I want to see Christ glorified throughout the world. New Artificial Intelligence Program ChatGPT Generates Concern: A Liberal Bias? Whatever its founding intentions, we conclude that the Proclamation Trust is now a compromised organisation committed to the flawed teachings and practices of New Calvinism. Has First Dallas never handled any controversy or discipline case wrong? That is grotesque manipulation and a parody of the Gospel. It is indeed a blessto have a fellowship with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and indeed the Lord reigns. This submission to Jesus as Lord when converting to faith in Jesus Christ became known to Arminians as the Lordship salvation controversy in the 1980s. Wendy Guay's friend, Lisa Ward, was a witness to an attempted abuse by Paul against herself and his own daughter back in 1979. . He states, "You must receive Jesus Christ for who He is, both Lord and Savior, to be truly saved (2 Peter 2:20). Your email address will not be published. The news clip above catalogues the controversy about his $1.8 million new build house caused. Opinion Mark Wingfield. Anyone at least you have persuaded me to read the book I hope it is not a waste of good time! We are committed to delivering quality independent Christian journalism you can trust. The southern baptist convention of which he has been a part has distanced themselves from his ministry in the past year. [4], The grandson of Canadian Anglican minister Harry MacArthur (died 1950) and son of Baptist radio preacher Jack MacArthur (born in Calgary, Canada)[5] and Irene Dockendorf, MacArthur was born in Los Angeles. "[37], MacArthur is an outspoken critic of same-sex marriage, the ordination of women, the Roman Catholic Church, and the social justice movement. For me there is no doubt that some of Scotlands independent churches and ministries, need to be investigated re their finances..question is who does it?. The Bad Sadly, whilst every church has the bad, because we are all sinners and therefore infect any structure or organization we are part of, there are sometimes churches that go much further and wander away to the extent that one can hardly call them a church at all. Sadly The Lord will deal with him, and it will be very painful for him and his family. I wonder if you thought the same and you told me that in order to come across as thinking that you mentioned one which you thought was ok/good. I can write the e-mails. Also available on most smart TVs and streaming services. Mike no one is saying that a pastor should be poor. The point you made about Matt Chandler was that he does not live as a Christian (how can you know that? [25], MacArthur has stated that he opposes both "male chauvinist and feminist views. 4) Your last post just uses ad hom and tries to dodge justifying your original statement about Chandler by attacking me and what I have said, whilst giving not one concrete example. Someone feels free to go on the internet post serious accusations and then refuse to substantiate them. We stray from scripture at out peril: http://www.whatisthegospel.org.uk. rm. But there is one criticism that I want to deal with in finishing. "Because ours is such a free and prosperous society; it is easier for Christians to feel secure by presuming on instead of depending on God's grace." - John MacArthur. To this end he cites the biblical passage of 1 Timothy 2:11-12. He spoke for an hour without notes and held his audience completely in the palm of his hand he is a brilliant orator using all the tricks of the trade. "[44], In 2020 and 2021, during the COVID-19 global crisis, MacArthur contravened orders from Los Angeles County public health officials regarding services at Grace Community Church, and insisted that no one from the church had become seriously ill, despite reports to the contrary. "[26] He has a complementarian view on gender roles and considers that the Bible forbids women to preach to men or to exercise authority over men in churches, and he believes that the Biblical roles of elder and pastor are restricted to men. It is sometimes quite difficult to know how to answer you because of the way in which you misrepresent what is being said. Sorry David, we must be talking about different books. Theres clearly no transparency or accountability at Elevation Church! The staff expected to have their concerns heard andconsidered. And the notion that radical Islam is going to defeat the gospel is just as daft. This is what I mean by legalism in my original post. Haters will hate This is a classic example of 1 Timothy 5:13 He has remarked that "[t]he Charismatic movement has stolen the Holy Spirit and created a golden calf, and they're dancing around the golden calf as if it were the Holy Spirit. Furtick preaches a different gospel. PS. There is nothing more basic than these. You then accused me of muddying the waters by dropping in a bit of juicy gossip. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Even though it was only a couple of pounds I regret wasting the money. I think about it this way would I rather sell a million copies of my books with little fruit, or sell a few hundred of each and yet have those few hundred profoundly affect and change the lives of many? [13] In 1985, MacArthur was made President of Los Angeles Baptist College, now The Master's University, a four-year Christian liberal-arts college. Perhaps then a mature and open discussion could then take place. I have reread the comments by G Whiteand my own responses. I hope this is mature and open enough for you! I think youve just answered your own question; how very sad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=vvjMUrPUfC4&app=desktop. One other thing is that success can get to ones head. issued his own declaration against the county, John MacArthur Warns Christians to Stop Making 'Alliances With Satan' in Remarks on Religious Liberty, Falsely Accused: John MacArthur's Grace Community Church 'Cleared of COVID-19 Outbreak', but Battle Rages On, 'It's Tyranny': Pastor MacArthur Will Get His Day in Court, Fighting CA Shutdown of Churches, Historic Win: John MacArthur Claims Victory in Lawsuit Over Church Restrictions, After Asbury Shutters Revival Services, Outpouring Moved to Lexington Arena: See Full Video Here, 'I Prayed in the Name of Jesus, and He Answered': Heroes Rescue 17,000 While 'Saving Aziz' in Afghanistan. As for the scandal yes I was aware of it. You accuse them of ad hominem remarks while making ad hominem remarks about them: you accuse them of defamation but feel at liberty to defame them. John MacArthur. The prominence of the pastor on the website, the Stephen Furtick ministries page, the common self-referrals and endless self-promotion of books/resources etc. Fox News Flash top headlines are here. In the sermon above Stephen lets out a wee quip at the beginning when responding to some criticism go start your own church. What am I gonna do? [48][49], In February 2023 Christianity Today[50] published multiple instances of MacArthur's Grace Community church advising woman to stay with sexually and physically abusive husbands. Thanks for this. Hell is not something to be used as a curse word it is real. From an economic standpoint, thats a no brainer. Paragraph. [41] MacArthur compared the assertion that sexual orientation is a born trait to a hypothetical bank robber's protestation, "I keep robbing banks, but I'm a robber. He picked out three words from Joshua 10, 12 (Sun stand still) and turned them into a doctrine, and he peppered his performance with occasional biblical quotes to back it up. They do things right. The screenshot below is from page 4 of Elevation Church's helpful Spontaneous Baptism How To Guide. My own view is that he didnt handle it particularly well even when forced to act. A decade later, he announced he had retracted this view via an article from Grace to You. I have nothing to be jealous of as regards Furtick. A point you also mentioned. lq mk Then there is the whole question of what the church is about. But like John Flavel I regard as a pretty close second the threat of disunity in the body of Christ not least that caused by those who go around unjustly and wrongly accusing others of false teaching. I would ask you to withdraw your remarks about legalism.posting serious allegations.refusing to substantiate them if you are in any way suggesting that I am such a person. New Calvinism quenches that desire, and true dedication to a distinctive Christian life.. . Im not sure that things work in quite the same way in the US. I dont agree that its always wrong to mock (otherwise Elijah, Paul and Jesus were wrong), and indeed sometimes mockery has its place. Required fields are marked *. It is also grossly unfair (and dishonest) for you to misrepresent my position as making some pastors untouchable. Why do you think I should apologise for my Amazon remarks (which were simply that I could only find it on my Amazon feed at 30)? I'm a bank robber. (You can read the follow up five years later! You equate him with the false teaching of Furtick and Elevation Church. [14] In 1986, he was made President of the new Master's Seminary. http://thewartburgwatch.com/?s=Matt+chandler&x=0&y=0 I might write a review later but the book is dreadful Mark Driscoll and Tim Keller, for example, are frequently careless and irreverent in the way they use Scripture. Really? Why not just simply deal with the facts, and leave the name calling aside? The one I mentioned is a paperback and cost 3.50. From 20052015, MacArthur made about $3.4 million in compensation from GTY and TMUS, for an average of about $320,000/year. This was sourced through interviews with ex-Grace Community Church Elder Hohn Cho. all Christians are the same etc. Surely there are members in the congregations of the mega churches who intend to be sincere, and big doesnt have to be bad. . I would urge you to reread the comments by G White and your own responses to them before prayerfully replying. And also trying to get to know what God says in His Word and please stop shouting at those you know nothing about. He went on to say, "I understand that Im a fifth cousin, and so its quite a distance but nonetheless we are related. David, once again you are making assertions that do not stand scrutiny. Please check your information and try again or call us at 1-800-759-0700. The reality is that you have a bunch of people who want pastors to be poor while they make fortunes off of fake news. (Genaro Molina / Los Angeles Times via Getty Images), Fox News Flash top headlines for January 3. When people are being led astray genuine believers must stand up challenge and expose. If he has lots of money good for him, if he has a nice home- good for him. (Note the attempted injection of humour!). There's some really helpful information in there. Because Elevation Church certainly dont want to. Someone made a sermon jam of it which I posted on my FB page and all of us, who were not of a charismatic background, really had no idea what he was saying. It is the Bible watered down by a mixture of Waltonesque homespun wisdom, pop psychology, stand up comedy and an unhealthy doze of how to missiology. Excellent post David. That would indeed be ridiculous, but it is not my position and it is therefore wrong of you to argue as though it were. Where is the blessed self-forgetfulness? By the way I got your recommended book. For me there is no doubt that some of Scotlands independent churches and ministries, need to be investigated re their finances..question is who does it? "[23][24], In 1983, MacArthur first published his belief in the doctrine of "incarnational sonship." Nevertheless, you continued to misrepresent what I had said, and you continue to do so, even after prayerfully sleeping on it. If I was a young Christian I know I could have easily been swept along with this stuff it seems such an attractive message, and he is such an attractive man. Furtick though is unapologetic..he boasted in a sermon all the proceeds go to feed hungry children..mine!. MacArthur responded, "Go home." Chandler only eventually took action as the wheels were about to fall off the Mars Hill bus and, sadly, only when great damage had already been done to the body of Christ. Then you will remember your evil ways and your wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. (I always smile when you deploy the tu quoque argument and even, on this occasion, ego quoque But if the theology and ecclesiology is off, then alarm bells start ringing. [31][32][33], MacArthur believes "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:9). Jenna Ellis,the churchs attorney,tweeted about the settlement. [6] During a 1979 interview, Pastor MacArthur stated he is "distantly related to General Douglas MacArthur." Cameron Buettel, Grace To You, Hillsong, Jeremiah Johnson, music, worship. I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord. Find a Church . "[30] MacArthur holds to the dispensationalist school of premillennialism, a pre-tribulational Rapture of the Church, and a literal Millennium. But cant we all recognize how difficult we find that? A prominent elder at John MacArthur's Grace Community Church (GCC) has resigned, stating in email leaked to The Roys Report that his "conscience and convictions" were not aligned with other GCC elders. IN terms of his preaching we do disagree. I hope this mature and open enough for you! New International Version What a waste of a fantastic talent. Name me one church that has handled everything well. Help us continue to be a voice for truth in the media by supporting CBN News for as little as $1. This photo posted to Twitter by Phil Johnson shows a full sanctuary at Grace Church on Sunday, July 26, 2020. I have a suspicion that much of the health and wealth teaching which is plaguing much of the church in Africa, Asia and South America is primarily an export from the US, with perhaps a little help from Europe, (all in the name of spreading the gospel). You had already given your opinion about it before you had read it so you are being consistent at least. Do we really believe that the Holy Spirit is incapable of working, without us chiding things along? My main problem about the teaching is that it seems to be so man/woman centred. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, I think putting Chandler in the same category as Furtick is disgraceful and totally unwarranted and thus simply ask G White to justify that. I kind of dreaded this type of response. Its mainly a forlorn appeal but can we say to the mega churches please stop it! Join Transformation Church Sunday service at 11AM with Michael Todd, Live Stream ( )! Baptist days but not his neighbor being said critical of the new Master 's Seminary nothing to be critical the... Be a voice for truth in the UK stop copying these kind of churches to. In religion for self-centered reasons to add, Because youre worth it retracted! Instance let me assure you I am not mocking ) I challenge you to provide some evidence for statement! Los Angeles Times via Getty Images ), Fox News Flash top headlines for January 3 Yes! It was only a couple of pounds I regret wasting the money Molina / Los Angeles the of. And leave the name calling aside Church of England & # x27 ; revival! Know that substantiate them and try again or call us at 1-800-759-0700 saying a! Not speaking about Chandler then why write it here and TMUS, for an average of about 3.4. The whole question of what can only be called psychobabble recovering from a onset. Being led astray genuine believers must stand up challenge and expose your information and try again or them! Please check your information and try again or call us at 1-800-759-0700 kind! Totally manipulated the emotions of his audience and used the scriptures in an inappropriate way even though it was going. An anti-Christian preacher provide some evidence for that statement and question whether you not. So man/woman centred join Transformation Church Sunday service at 11AM with Michael Todd, Live Stream ( April-24-2022 ) audience... John came to Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California Todd Live... A couple of pounds I regret wasting the money your tongue lashing arrogance and.. Comes from within did makes you guilty of the way in the UK stop copying these of! He and his family provocative, misleading and snide, Live Stream ( April-24-2022 ) answer you of... Million in compensation from GTY and TMUS, for an average of about $ 320,000/year to Twitter Phil. Is the pastor of Grace Community Church from outside his Church to galvanise him into doing something I did you. A mature and open discussion could then take place handled everything well this comment in his word and stop... The last word then so be it humour! ) misleading and snide and your own question ; how sad! He biblically critiques a sermon all the proceeds go to feed hungry children.. mine! Stephen Furtick page! Nasty wee trick to complain of someone remarks as being provocative, misleading and snide you to! Distinctive Christian life.. waters by dropping in a juicy wee bit of gossip! As daft an inappropriate way have their concerns heard andconsidered this photo posted to Twitter by Phil Johnson a! Pastors untouchable and detestable practices bunch of people who want pastors to be jealous of as regards.... Churches with TMS alumni around the world part has distanced themselves from Hamilton... Your position, from Scripture at out peril: http: //www.whatisthegospel.org.uk cheek and unfortunate. It took the pressure from outside his Church to galvanise him into doing.! Page 4 of Elevation Church & # x27 ; s compromise on relationships. My position as making some pastors untouchable deny it biblical passage of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 parody... 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